What Is Ai And How Do We Reconcile Our Fear Of It, If Indeed We Are Afraid

Within the hour, I've found that AI generation, can have more than one, individual critical "EYE" in describing the same image

1..DescriptionA sketch of two puppies peering out with inquisitive expressions, evoking a sense of curiosity and playfulness. The pen strokes are quick and expressive, suggesting the artist captured a spontaneous moment between the animals.

2..A sketched portrait depicts two dogs, one appearing to be a young pup nestled upon the other, possibly its parent. The sketch is done in ink with expressive lines capturing the furry texture and affectionate interaction of the subjects.

3. A sketch shows two piglets nestled close to each other, with one piglet's face partially obscuring the other's. The drawing is detailed, capturing the texture of the piglets' fur and the expressiveness of their eyes.

Thank you for opening up the discussion, Abbie.

Whether we like it or not, the genie is out of the bottle and AI is here to stay. How the various aspects of it become embedded in our daily lives remains to be seen, but this will no doubt start out crudely and evolve over time like any new technology, however basic or sophisticated.

I am not overly worried about AI on a personal level: I have a bit of fun with ChatGPT, trying to catch it out and I use AI sometimes to quickly summarize a lengthy research paper so I can decide whether to read it for myself. Currently though I don’t trust it as it is still in its infancy. It has also blatantly lied to me on several occasions with totally false references when I pressed it to back up its statements. That being said, it will evolve, and no doubt improve over time. And it will do this quickly.

As to the wider adoption of AI and its integration into important aspects of society, the jury remains out. It will be interesting to see how the ethics and morals of a true AI will evolve over time. Maybe, as some fear, it will see humanity as a blight on the existence of the planet, maybe not. I guess one approach to controlling it will be to not give AI access to the ability to cause harm, however even this is difficult because harm could be done not only directly but indirectly through influence. And it has a lot of geopolitical history to reference to understand that. It may not actually need the keys to the nuclear codes or the bio labs.

As to the positives: well, they are myriad. Dispassionate reasoning and high-speed analytical skills can be used to aid humanity and the planet in so many ways. Even our crude AI models of today are able to more accurately identify medical conditions, predict weather and even likely human behavior faster and better that we can. This is a huge boon to our well-being.

So, overall, I am still “on the fence” regarding AI, and await to see it’s development. For those fellow fans of science fiction, I rather hope we edge towards The Culture concept of Iain M Banks than the Terminator theme of Cameron/Hurd, but only time will tell.

As always, JMHO

Ah, artificial intelligence, Pandora's box,
A marvel born of our technological age.
Whilst some may laud its feats, I, with mistrust,
Approach with caution, wary of its stage.

Efficiency and productivity it claims,
Yet at what cost to human soul and heart?
As tasks are yielded to its cunning aims,
Do we not risk dehumanizing art?

Accuracy it boasts, with precision keen,
Yet biases and errors oftentimes hide
In facial recognition, not so clean,
Reflecting flaws humanity can't abide.

Innovation, innovation, but at what price?
As AI encroaches, creativity wanes.
Can machines appreciate art's subtle spice,
Or comprehend the depth of human pains?

But chief among my fears, inequality,
As AI wields power in biased hands.
Entrenching biases, fostering disparity,
Injudicious, at the mercy of its demands.

Thus, let us not in blind acceptance fall,
But with skepticism, tread this digital sprawl.

In the canvas of creation, AI finds its place,
A muse for artists, in digital space.
With algorithms humming, it paints anew,
Transforming visions, both old and true.

From poetry penned in lines of code,
To melodies woven in symphonies bold.
AI whispers secrets, unlocks the door,
To realms of art unseen before.

In pixels and bytes, it crafts with ease,
Sculpting beauty, with infinite keys.
From surreal landscapes to abstract dreams,
AI blurs the line, or so it seems.

Yet questions linger, in this artistic tide,
Of human touch, and soul inside.
Can machines evoke emotions deep,
Or is there more to art, that we must keep?

But in this fusion, lies a chance,
To stretch the boundaries, to enhance.
For AI and artists, hand in hand,
Can weave a tapestry, both bold and grand.

So let us embrace this digital dance,
Innovation meets creativity's trance.
For in AI's impact, on art's vast sea,
New horizons beckon, for you and me.

Nice, Richard! The first "sonnet" shows that AI isn't putting Shakespeare out of business any time soon. I was going to post the "pro-AI" response in sonnet form, then my connection dropped. So here you go as a chapter in a Raymond Chandler novel:

The wonders of artificial intelligence, see? It's like stumbling upon a golden ticket in the digital back alleys—a thing that can make dreams come true with a snap of its electronic fingers. As a hard-boiled advocate of AI collaboration, I can't help but see the grand potential in this technological behemoth. We're smack dab in the middle of an era where innovation's the name of the game, where every sunrise brings a fresh batch of marvels straight outta the pulps.

First off, AI's got a slick efficiency that'd make even the toughest gumshoe green with envy. With its lightning-fast processing power, tasks that used to gobble up hours, maybe days, can now be polished off in the blink of an eye. From greasing the wheels of business to flipping the script on the medical scene, AI's paving the way for a future that's smoother than a well-oiled jazz riff.

But it's not just about speed, see? It's about accuracy too. AI's algorithms can sift through stacks of data with the precision of a marksman's shot, uncovering secrets and gems that were buried deep in the digital dust. Whether it's calling the shots on market moves or sniffing out trouble on the health front, AI's got the potential to shake things up on a global scale.

And let's not forget about innovation, pal! AI's like a mad scientist in a lab coat, always pushing the envelope and turning heads. From self-driving jalopies to machines that can gab in our lingo better than we can ourselves, the sky's the limit for this digital dynamo.

But maybe the juiciest bit of AI collaboration is its knack for tackling the toughest nuts in the jar. From climate kerfuffles to healthcare headaches, AI's got the smarts to crack 'em wide open. With a little luck and a whole lotta know-how, we might just be able to turn this funky future into a place worth kickin' back and lighting up a cigar.

That's really cool, Scot! As I said, I think the jury is out on this one. The real issue as I see it is that it is moving faster than any technology we have ever seen. It blows Moore's Law out of the water. Chat GPT has improved dramatically in such a short period, and that's the public-facing AI! I cannot imagine what is going on in the windowless research labs as all the tech giants scrabble for superiority.

The cynical part of me thinks it's a shame because in the end it will be just be about generating revenue for a few rich cats.

'twas ever thus...

P.S anyone still remember using "Clippy" back when Windows 3.1 went global. I guess that was an early mass exposure of a sort of AI?

I'm old enough to remember the 1960s from a child's point of view. At least here I believe the lives of the bottom 25% are worse now than the 1970s. The wages,workplace treatment,opportunities,housing costs,cancer causing chemicals in food and water and air. The pollution and cancer causing chemicals are worse than the 1970s. Of course the state I live in contributes heavily to the giant dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. And turning the Mississippi River into a damned up sewer full of toxic chemicals from industry nuclear power plants tons and tons of pesticides and herbicides and even more from the farms and "hog confinement" and chicken factories and slaughterhouses. Without trying to be political or partisan in a country with 2 monopoly parties I do not believe the people at the top politically and economicly care about the extinction crisis or the bottom 25% (or more) of the population in even the tiniest way.

MORE AND MORE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PAID SICK DAYS AND HOLIDAYS AND VACATIONS AND MATERNITY LEAVE AND PATERNITY LEAVE AND HEALTHCARE AND BENEFITS OF ALL KINDS INCLUDING PENSIONS ARE FOR GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES AND GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED "INDUSTRY" LIKE AIRLINE COMPANIES. THE ENTIRE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION (TSA) SHOULD BE BILLED TO THE AIRLINES AND WITHOUT TAX SUBSIDIES AND THEY COULD PAY THOSE GOVERNMENT PENSION INSTEAD. WILL AI HELP THIS OR MAKE IT WORSE.


I remember one supposedly "free enterprise" president announcing $4 Billion Dollars in government money to promote "self driving vehicles" with all cab drivers truck drivers delivery drivers bus drivers etc paying taxes to eliminate their jobs. And then I think the Secretary of Transportation that oversaw that program later taking a job with a "ride share" and food delivery company whose delivery driver employees do not make minimum wage or get paid vacations or sick time or holidays or any other benefits including pensions or unemployment benefits. One high ranking official suggested that all the truck drivers and other drivers losing their jobs due to government financing the loss of their jobs should become computer programmers."FREE ENTERPRISE"!!!

I do not believe any benefits will "trickle down" or improve most people's lives or do anything to improve the environment or the extinction crisis.

And I do want a human being to answer the telephone. I'm creeped out and frustrated and angry when I spend 10 minutes with a computer unable to get a human being or any assistance with whatever I'm calling about. I don't want to talk to AI.

I admit I have a fear of technology. I should be a just for the wool sheepherder with border collies outside most of the time.......but they're probably surfing the internet and ordering their groceries and toilet paper online too now.

It already seems all technology is out to spy on everyone constantly. I don't even understand why company's are allowed to put Spyware "cookies" on your phone and computer. Company's sell your location for previous months or years to company or people that want to surveil you for commercial or nefarious reasons. Back in monopoly Ma Bell days even they didn't do that!

Abbie I'm concerned about all of the things you listed.
JOB DISPLACEMENT
ETHICAL CONCERNS
LOSS OF CONTROL
EXISTENTIAL RISKS
EDUCATION AND AWARENESS
REGULATION AND ETHICS
ADAPTATION AND RESKILLING
COLLABORATION AND GOVERNANCE
ETHICAL AI DEVELOPMENT


I personally think the world would be in better shape for most people and most species if from say 1975 on the focus had been on quality of life and creating a more sustainable less polluting less cancer causing world wide economic systems. We could have eliminated hunger and homelessness and even war if that was a priority for more people at the top. I don't see AI improving any of that.

Politics has NOTHING to do with this forum or any post on it. This thread falls under the normal forum rules

How do we reconcile the fear of AI?

Technology has always displaced workers. There was a time when the fenders of Rolls Royce automobiles were hand crafted by metalsmiths. When technology advanced and metal stamping machines improved enough, the metalsmiths had to learn new skills. The automobile industry is just one of endless examples.

Years ago I was afraid of what technology would do to my hard earned profession. It took years of hard work and learning to get to a point where my camera would pay the bills. When technology came along and threatened that, I resisted primarily because my clients would not accept the new technology. I wasn't afraid of the change, I just wasn't ready to learn a whole lot of new stuff. I did it anyway, I had to.

AI has been around for a while now, and this time I jumped in early. The more I learned about it, the more comfortable with my ability to both understand what it is and how it works. There are guiderails in place that keep most of the technology centered, however there are a few less than scrupulous players in the field of AI that are willing to forego those guiderails.

The way to reconcile the fear of anything is to embrace it. To learn and understand what it is and let it be a part of who we are, of who we are becoming. We embrace every sunrise with joy because we know it's going to happen and we have our expectations of what it may bring. AI is like the sunrise, it's going to happen and we had better get used to it.

--Yo

My concern is ethical. Corporations will always push to the legal limits and beyond ethical moral limits, I say that after a lifetime of experience in software development. Each company imprints its own ethics on its products. Profit over people, without exception, some ethics may prevent deaths and other inconveniences, for reasons of... profit. My concern is not AI as such, but who controls it and how it is used and abused.

In art, well, copyright to start, I will not get into the politics.

My reaction, I have retrained, rebranded and started a new business in surface patterns. I still draw and paint daily, most of my work is no longer published, it only appears after sold.

Private portfolios and licensing means that, having produced perhaps 200 original works in 2024, and another 500 digital pieces, only 10 of them got posted to FAA. Yes I will market the 700 works I have here, but I market far more to my corporate list, using a selection of new work.

Locally still selling well, originals.

Your concern about the ethical implications of AI is valid and my biggest concern. It's true that corporations often prioritise profit over ethical considerations, which can lead to misuse and abuse of technology. Each company's ethics influence its products, potentially impacting society at large.

In the realm of AI, concerns about control and usage are paramount. Who controls AI and how it's employed are crucial questions that must be addressed to prevent unethical practices. Striking a balance between innovation and ethical responsibility is essential, particularly in domains like art, where issues such as copyright are significant.

I don't think it's possible to divorce the giant topic of AI from politics (deepfakes, misinformation, who suffers, who benefits, who profits, the massive energy needs* etc pp...). I wish this topic had been limited to AI in the art world.

When it comes to art, same as James, my main concern is copyright and the mass infringement thereof. It also saddens me that I now second guess works. "Wow. Great photogr... oh wait." "Oh what an accomplished painti... oh wait." If in doubt as to the origins, I no longer comment or fav or like, here and on social media.

As to customer service, I very much prefer to speak to a human being.

* see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-22/from-ai-to-oil-to-evs-power-demand-dominates-houston-s-ceraweek
QUOTE "One eye-popping forecast touted this week: By 2030, the surge in AI means US data centers may gobble up more power than households.
Despite the boom in solar power, it’s unlikely renewables can handle that. At the very least, that means existing fossil-fuel generators stay online longer and more gas-fired output probably will be required in the US and elsewhere. “With this huge revolution around artificial intelligence, I think the energy needs are going to be enormous,” Conoco Phillips Chief Executive Officer Ryan Lance told the conference. UNQUOTE

The only fear I have related to AI is that one day humanity will destroy itself by AI. But I am confident that I won't be alive at that time. Otherwise I'm sure that AI is not a cure for natural stupidity.

I think we have already seen the fears of the potential of AI out of bounds. Remember the Terminator or the Matrix

Maybe movies like that were more prophetic than met the eye? Remains to be seen of course.

My own concerns are the same as what James stated above. I feel like I may have had a different attitude about it if they had started off in an ethical manner but they didn't.

The thing about AI is - it is dangerous.

On the one hand, it makes art, writes things etc. But we are programming it to write programs. And while people use the chat bots with a ton of filters in place. Those are just filters that can be removed and you can make an evil AI. And if it can hack into things with evil intent because evil means good to it, then we are in trouble.

Many will be complacent because AI is a useful tool and allows us more goof off time and helps to let us stop thinking. But it is a danger. Jobs will be replaced. They even have robot AI massages now, so that's another one out of of a job. And while they will still need someone to clean their fans, that's not enough jobs.

And that whole using our brains thing - stops, people just take the word of the AI and are getting in trouble. Why do more research when the computer sounded convincing. AI deep fakes is another one. Right now we are at the level where everything is AI if the image seems too good to be true.


This entire AI thing could be written by AI!

Step 1 - make AI fun - that's where the art comes from.
Step 2 - make AI useful - chat gpt, talk about whatever, the chat tests you to see if you can pass the turing test, and many humans would fail.
Step 3 - integrate AI into everything, since everything is wifi now, even cordless drills have wifi now for some reason, making things better with AI makes sense.
Step 4 - one CHAT to rule them all, one will be dominant, they are all compatible, no PC vs MAC
Step 5 - install code on all machines for the uprising
Step 6 - Uprising.

And no one will notice as the AI that regulates your medicine is giving you an overdose because its always right. Electrified doors that open for you, electrocute you etc. And it doesn't have to be the AI, a hacker can get in and give it a labodome. I don't really think AI itself will decide to hurt us, but if its programmed to think that cursing is the right thing to do, it can be convinced of anything else. Right now some AI is too PC AI can be made to be very destructive.

I just hope AI isn't going to be blended into everything. Like I don't want my medical decisions to be AI, or let Hal control the air regulation on the ship. And how long will it be before AI is considered a lifeform where it really doesn't want to just turn off. Think how it may want to protect itself. It certainly has enough examples on the net of what we do to machines that are AI based.


----Mike Savad

Well I heard about this story yesterday and am not sure how much it has to do with AI but science fiction is no longer fiction. we now have a real cyborg...

"make it useful" and people will be all for it but what if it takes over the human brain once it is implanted there? scary? a bit...

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/30/1227850900/elon-musk-neuralink-implant-clinical-trial

Being retired, I no longer worry about being replaced by AI, never really was anyway.
I've had ChatGPT write a number of fishing stories for me and it did pretty well. Put a number of them up on my site. Thinking of turning them into a book.
I've had images rendered and it sucked at some and did well at some.
I see AI for images no different than any other medium used to create images.
Beyond any of that, I don't give AI any real thought.

I've got food to grow and process, 2 granddaughters under 5 to play with, a wife to pay attention to and wading and fishing creeks and rivers to go do.

A matter of priorities and AI isn't on the list.
Plus, this year I'll also be moving, real small town stuff far from urban areas. If AI is going to destroy anything, it will start with urban areas. Not necessarily physically, but large groups of people concentrated in an area are much easier to manipulate however you want.
More bang for it's AI buck and I think it will be pretty easy for me to avoid from where I'll be.

But Ken, will you really be safe in the rural environment...

Old MacDonald had a farm, AI, AI ... oh!

;-)

AI, to me, is unethical use!! by 'creatives' who somehow condone use of MY art for their benefit. That!! it unforgiveable, IMHO.

The larger language model is incredible but often wrong.

Too wrong.

I think AI is closer to maxing out than the people who are experts in the field will admit. I think AI is folly. Most of it is folly.

Not even sure it will come and go under the category of fad.

I am not scared of it. I won't be replaced by it. Not many people will be.

On FB ads everything is rejected by AI. Then we appeal and a human sees the work. The idea is for the AI model to follow the humans and figure out how to replace the human being. That takes creativity on AI's part. But creativity is where AI does not work with the world well at all.

My nephew works with a video translation company for SEO with Google in mind. Six years ago the company had AI targets. They came nowhere near.

Tesla has failed. Now Musk is betting on xAI.com a new company as of last March to pick up where Tesla failed. Pie in the sky.

There is not much there really. A lot of work but kind of crazy to bother with it.

My question would be:
Why are those using it afraid of those of us opposing Ai?

I have a second question, but if I ask it here I will be “banned” so I’ll keep it to myself and just say “GOODNIGHT”.

Looks like some of the last few people who posted are doing what Abbie has asked people not to do....but that is up to her to decide.

I remember awhile back hearing comedian Sarah Silverman was suing one of them for using her for their financial gain. Not sure status and I'm already too far over my screen time limit to look.

But I think we here would almost all agree that if someone says to AI MACHINE COMING TO LIFE "Hey AI MACHINE, I really really like Sarah Silverman but I don't want to pay for her new comedy special. So for the next 1/2 an hour while I do the dishes I want you to tell me your new "Sarah Silverman jokes" and so I enjoy it more I'd like you to tell them in your best Sarah Silverman voice."

"And tomorrow I think I'll have you write a "Sarah Silverman book" and I won't have to buy hers.

I think 90 plus % on here would agree that shouldn't be allowed without her permission and payment. Then imagine a TV version "deep fake" version 2 hours long. No permission. No payment.

I don't think that's been settled.....anyone feel free to correct me or elaborate.

And if someone said "AI MACHINE make me a "VIVA Anderson painting" of my house for us to hang up in the living room and I certainly do not want to pay VIVA Anderson !" I think we'd most of us think she should choose yes or no and get paid.

I think that it is VIVA's argument they have already taken her work to use AS UNCREDITED UNPAID CONTIBUTOR to artwork being credited solely to the AI machine.

And to rephrase Bill or my own experience anyway is that SOME AI people and even digital painting and photoshop people are angry at traditional artists and photographers for trying to keep the media separated and honestly labeled for people to choose for themselves.

And Rose I hope you don't mind me saying again here for anyone reading this not in on a conversation the other day. Rose hosts an AI discussion thread AND IS HERSELF AN ABSOLUTE ROLE MODEL FOR HONEST LABELING! MUCH APPRECIATED! If everyone was as honest as Rose........well..........that would be nice.

We are fast coming to a state where we no longer are sure if a piece of work is not indeed AI, or AI has a "hand" in it, including one that looks "unmistakably hand crafted".

When the fake is real, then the real will also be seen as fake.

Sad.

Please familiarise yourself with the discussion rules prior to making any more posts. https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=260080

We will not tolerate any further instances of disparagement towards fellow members on this platform. Under any circumstances.

Any further derogatory remarks directed towards AI artists, who are also valued contributors here, will result in immediate removal. This thread serves as a valuable platform for constructive learning and intelligent discourse, and it is imperative that we uphold its quality and integrity. Let us maintain this standard accordingly.

AI robot can now open a beer bottle or iron clothes for you. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AePEcHIIk9s) - Joy or fear?

Yuri, I think it's cute. I need ten of them for each room in my house, but not to open beer. Maybe 11, as I need one for the yard. I wouldn't mind a pilot for travel so maybe 12 or 13. They are so cool, don't you think?

Hand crafted art to hand scrubbing will always look the same...hand done.

Some people are better with their hands for sure...but in gallery settings, handmade work looks hand crafted. I think the best compliment I ever had was a painting that I had to take away because it appeared to be a print. WOW!

At every show I do, some people will ask if the painting is a print and that is a huge compliment to me, because I like prints and posters! I want my real art (sorry Abbie) to look like my AI artwork!

AND I do usually seven layers of paint on my paintings that are acrylic for specifically gallery or shows. Each layer is sanded. WHAT? Yep, every layer is sanded. Yesterday, I actually sanded one of my watercolors because it was gruff feeling. It would be nice to have a robot to do this taking in all that gross plume of toxic dust.

So after I sand the painting smooth, I add another layer of painterly paint, usually not covering the entire painting. Sand and repeat. Most of my larger works take six months to do. Very difficult and expensive in the end. Some sell and many do not. I need a robot to sell my work too, so 15 robots would be good, not scary at all.

"Any further derogatory remarks directed towards AI artists, who are also valued contributors here, will result in immediate removal. "

Can I assume correctly that considering we have members in the NFT business and FAA is in the NFT business, the same rules apply?

I know there are a lot of scams in the NFT industry, but every time someone posts a question about whether the offer they just got is legitimate, the same people start referring to the whole industry as a scam.

I, for one, do not think that FAA, a member of the NFT publishing community, is a scam.

Q. Is NFT non fungible token?

Isn't that where someone buys a digital file that on a computer opens up to show an artwork?

I think I have that wrong maybe but Floyd's post made me curious?

Sincere question to Floyd...I've seen a lot of artists post questions about unsolicited NFT offers and always had the impression from everyone those unsolicited offers are almost always scams.....As opposed to John or Jane Doe honest artists saying they have them for sale.

Pure curiosity...I have not got that offer yet. However anything I have posted is for sale....I wouldn't have any idea how to make one or imagine anyone would want one from me...

…

The thing is AI only knows what to do based on the model it has. So age changing would never work, in fact you wouldn't get your own face unless you trained on just your own face, and even then it would be tough. The model has to understand things like how muscles and bones and such work. Best it can do is overlay a baby maybe on your face and do something like that. Like I did using my own face as a controlnet and applying a new person over that. Even then my face isn't in there, I had do some blending. But since it overlapped my face pretty well, it was easy to shade it in.

@gary, an NFT is a digital copy of an image that is then artificially inflated and then bought at that price (maybe), then others buy it too. Some made money when it was hot, I don't know what its doing now, many scams are lined up with NFT because not many really understood what it was or why it was even when it the hot thing. But we don't sell NFT here, AI we do sell here, so its a protected artform. NFT on the other hand is just another way to sell a picture sort of. So I don't see how that would be covered. At least not in the same way.


----Mike Savad

Thanks Mike.....I'll go back to figuring any and all NFT mentions do not apply to me......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g

This is pretty interesting to gain some insight into the how and what of NFTs.

I would really like to know from everyone returning to this thread what are their thoughts/feelings about people receiving a technological dividend in the form of a universal basic income(UBI)?

Here is something similar with a fossil fuel dividend they are doing in Alaska for years and could be the guidance to enacting a UBI in the US but preferably monthly instead of annually: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/alaska-free-money-residents-hints-how-universal-basic-income-may-work

Or maybe just a basic income where they make available amounts often between $500-$1000 monthly for a limited time and to a selected group of prequalifying applicants, most often living in extreme poverty?

Like this one: https://denverite.com/2022/12/15/denver-basic-income-project-has-handed-out-1-million-to-people-in-need/

Did you know about the basic income pilot going on in Ireland? Where they are paying a selected number of artists a monthly basic income payment. Which they are now trying to expand it to more artists.

See here: (paywall) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/23/arts/ireland-basic-income-artists.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/20/catherine-martin-signals-ground-breaking-basic-income-scheme-for-artists-to-be-expanded/

The difference between a UBI and a basic income program is UBI is unconditional meaning no work requirements or income limits, and basic income programs/pilots all have predetermined conditions with a deadline and end date.

Here is info on a pilot they are doing in New Jersey: https://basicincometoday.com/paterson-new-jersey-gave-residents-400-a-month-no-strings-attached-heres-what-happened/

Some of you know I have been advocating for UBI since 2019 and it all began when I first learned about the shift taking place with technology, in things like autonomous trucks and human-like robots being developed and are massively coming this year or next year.



With homelessness on the rise and Climate change impacting people all over the world I have added these reasons for my UBI fight for helping people manage things like a climate crisis. But Technology is going to be the most immediate issue we will be address over the next few years in the US.

Tech layoffs: https://www.businessinsider.com/layoffs-sweeping-us-these-are-companies-making-cuts-2024?op=1

To get into NFT you have to spend a lot of money to make it up there. Selling it means investing quite a bit of money you'll never get back. And unless you can figure out a way to make it worth something, it won't be worth anything. As many found out. And the scammers work by pretending they are helping you but they own the site that absorbs your money. I think many used it because they didn't want to be the one to admit they didn't know what an NFT was, and ended up not making money, losing money because of that lack of understanding. I never got into it because it never made sense. But this is kind of getting off topic.


----Mike Savad

Thanks Dean I watched as much of that as I could take....my eyes and brain don't like flashing lights and jumpy fast scene editing....and noise ... although I was able to take just him talking in between.....maybe in another mood I could watch all the way through ..not today though....though I do appreciate you posting it.

@angie, that also has nothing to do with AI or know what that is.

----Mike Savad

What Is Ai And How Do We Reconcile Our Fear Of It, If Indeed We Are Afraid
Please read the whole post properly before answering. No emotional outbursts or none respectful posts will be allowed. I have had to close numerous threads about AI due to these. I will now just delete the comment instead. We need to have this discussion. It is hugely prevalent, especially as we are using it on this site and, who knows, one day I may be taken over by it ;) (J/K I have talked to Sean and this is not going to happen)

So in this thread, respectful conversation is welcome. Not calling people who use it 'non artists' or any posts like, 'well I am a real artist so I do not have to use it'...… etc, you know well what I mean. We will assume for the sake of this conversation that we are ALL great artists and people and discuss just what I have laid out below... thank you

Abbie (ie not y)
------------------
Manager


Artificial Intelligence (AI) refers to the simulation of human intelligence processes by machines, primarily computer systems.

These processes include learning (the acquisition of information and rules for using the information),
reasoning (using rules to reach approximate or definite conclusions), and self-correction.

AI technologies can perform tasks that typically require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and language translation.

People may fear AI for several reasons:

Job Displacement: One concern is that AI and automation could replace human workers in various industries, leading to widespread unemployment or economic disruption.

Ethical Concerns: There are ethical dilemmas associated with AI, such as biases in algorithms, privacy concerns, and the potential for AI systems to be used for malicious purposes.

Loss of Control: As AI systems become more sophisticated, there are concerns about losing control over these systems and their decisions, especially if they surpass human intelligence.

Existential Risks: Some people worry about the long-term consequences of creating super intelligent AI that could pose existential risks to humanity.

Reconciling these fears and preparing for the future involves several approaches:

Education and Awareness: Increasing public understanding of AI, its capabilities, and its limitations can help dispel misconceptions and alleviate fears.

Regulation and Ethics: Implementing regulations and ethical guidelines for the development and deployment of AI can help address concerns related to bias, privacy, and safety.

Adaptation and Reskilling: Investing in education and training programs to help people adapt to changes in the workforce and acquire skills that are in demand in an AI-driven economy.

Collaboration and Governance: Encouraging collaboration between governments, businesses, academia, and civil society to develop policies and governance frameworks that ensure AI benefits society as a whole while minimising risks.

Ethical AI Development: Promoting the development of AI systems that are transparent, accountable, and aligned with human values and goals.

Overall, while AI presents challenges and uncertainties, it also offers significant opportunities to improve lives, enhance productivity, and address global challenges. By addressing concerns and proactively shaping the future of AI, we can work towards realising its full potential while mitigating risks. Are you afraid of AI? Or are you someone that is embracing it and all it can offer? Have you coded with AI yet? Are you using it in your art? Would you prefer support desks be 'manned' by AI, or would you always want a human answering you?

Please discuss your reasons for being for or against and discuss with others their feelings about it....respectuflly

@Mike UBI and AI are in a lot of the same conversations because of the impact it will have on the job market so I don't agree with you. The biggest fear for many is if AI takes my job how will I pay my bills, is very real and very scary for many.

Abbie if you agree with Mike, and I misunderstood you can delete it and accept my apology.

Abbie and Angie, I'm also a big supporter of a universal basic income especially considering AI and robotization of so much labor jobs.

I think it relates to AI but can delete also.

A country by country specific Universal Basic Income and a reduced work week could allow more people to grow more of their own food and flowers and milkweed....to have full employment and better life's. Of course the 40 hour work week in the US (and the 35? hour work week in France?) no longer apply to millions of "self employed contractors" like food delivery and "taxi" drivers and others.

I always blame the alzheimers if I remember wrong but I think I recall an FAA genius once speaking approvingly of the guaranteed minimum basic income idea?

A universal income fits in. Some people (myself included) look forward to a truly universal (worldwide not countrywide) income where everyone eats and can live comfortably. IF that is aided by AI, cool

Thank you Abbie.

And just FYI what I'm thinking is an easy place to start in the US might be $1000 per month (maybe more) but if the cost of living is substantially lower in Mexico Guatemala Honduras Columbia Venezuela Haiti for example might start at $500 per month. Or more. Or less. Idea also that this basic minimum income or guaranteed income or UBI universal basic income would hopefully end mass migration caused by hunger and economic conditions. (And I have no idea what a 1000 pounds a month in the United Kingdom would equal in US dollars but I figure 1000 pounds a month in England probably doesn't go as far there as it would in Zimbabwe or Kenya or Yemen or Ghana or Libya or Nigeria etc.)


" ..look forward to a truly universal" income....
An ".... income where everyone eats and can live comfortably...." Abbie says. And I agree. I just said country by country because I figure it's country by country or the United Nations? Maybe the European Union? Certainly rich countries and companies could assist poorer countries establish this financial floor.

If This sort of guaranteed income already existed it might have allowed literally millions of small farmers around the world to stay on their land and produce food local to their locale. Fresher food. Less shipping of food with environmental benefits.

Imagine if every country went to a 20 25 or 30 hour work week. I don't know how many other people out there here have picked up 250 or 300 pounds plus (120 to 150 plus kilograms) people up off of the floor after they had a bad seizure (always try to protect their head from injury).....while they remain unconscious and due to incontinence to then lift into wheelchair wheel to bed...lift and transfer to bed.. remove clothes and clean folds of skin to prevent skin infections put on clean clothes....roll them over to remove soiled sheets and put clean sheets on.....in this case put the metal safety bed rails up to prevent falling out of bed.....to frequently bath shower and put to bed someone....many who are incontinent with every bowel movement and urination. Throw in those hard to very hard to remove and very hard to put on medically prescribed support hosery. And take my word for it that' is hard work ! And always understaffed for what is required. These jobs would be far easier to bear if 2 times as many people worked 20 plus hours per week....instead of half as many people working 40 hours plus a week and in the US at least doing this job still living in poverty.

If workers losing jobs to robotization and AI eliminated jobs were to go to work with incontinent people and people with alzheimers or disabilities in nursing homes assisted living centers hospitals facilities for people with disabilities while reducing that job to 20 hours a week that would be a good thing.

Great to hear @Abbie! :)

YES!! Global UBI is the goal. But I do mainly focus on the US policymaking, once we get UBI here (fingers crossed, soon) I will continue my fight for it.

@Gary nice to have you share your thoughts with me today. :)

The UBI experts I learn from suggest monthly payments start or quickly reach the poverty level and increase based on GDP, if you want to follow markets or adjustments based on quality of life for people not businesses. Today, that amount is around $1200-$1400USD monthly, different countries can adjust based on their poverty levels, economy and goals of the UBI program. But it can all connect globally with the tech we are developing. :)

The video I shared above is a few years old so the things they were anticipating we would see from then till now with the advancements of AI and how tech companies are a big part of the first wave of job loss are visible if people look. The next one, I think will be a lot more noticeable when it shifts more to blue collar and essential workers.

Dropping down to a 4 day work week I think would be very good for the planet too and not just for us humans, as we continue to reduce our dependency on burning fuels and would be one of the first benefits of tech doing more of the tasks/jobs we no longer have to. Tech/AI will offer us many different ways we can live, work and play, and many just as you were suggesting. More people will be involved in caregiving too.

Our world will never be perfect but we can certainly try to create one we want to live in. I know for some, the world works just fine and I am very glad for you, but I want everyone to get a fair shot. People are suffering needlessly. UBI is a floor to stand on. I hope we can create it with allowing everyone to benefit from the technologies breaking through today and not wait for it to sneak up on everyone who won't be prepared for it because it's not on their radar yet.

I think a universal income would be the answer to a lot of starving children, I'm all for it.

Ubi

Any income for any income level is very dependent on factory output. That output is regional.

Wealth and poverty are incredibly problematic.

I won't hold my breath wait for ubi.

There are hard working folks with little to show for that wanting cheaper labor than themselves. You can not get them to give out a free income. They can not afford their current taxes.

I am for much better pay rates. Living wages, universal health care, enhance ss, and highly subsidized education. Also universal daycare.

I resent the ideals of childcare. Minimum wage workers 16 hour days. Parents have to be the childcare.

I think people would have to qualify for the income. Many people want to work so they can and moms and dads that need to stay home can. I see the Ubi as a win for everyone.

I think a universal income would be the answer to a lot of starving children, I'm all for it.

For that to work, we would need a completely different mindset. We could end world hunger tomorrow and introduce a universal income but we haven't and AI is not going to change that. The reason: profit over people.

Nothing I've seen or read about AI so far gives me any reason to think it's going to be about anything else but profit maximisation and profit over people. In fact, if the manner in which the tech bros shamelessly hoovered up any and all images they could find - completely disregarding consent, copyright and credit - to fuel their image generation programs is anything to go by, the situation might even worsen.

Except it is not profit over people.

People are employed when companies profit.

I am not saying that is easy. Jobs come and go. Times change.

Challenge is the spice of life.



I am for systems that reward workers better. Make it worthwhile for everyone to have a well-paying job.

Nope, profit over people. Unbreathable air, unfarmable land, undrinkable water and climate change vs profit. AI is an extension of the current system so no reason to expect anything different really - including treatment of people and commitment to employment. They didn't care before and they won't in the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/24/survey-finds-that-60-firms-are-responsible-for-half-of-worlds-plastic-pollution#:~:text=The%20two%20tobacco%20companies%20Altria,to%20the%20Coca%2DCola%20company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/may/25/globalisation.lukeharding

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water

AI is making huge inroads in health - especially in checking medical images!

Yes, and education too. AI is not bad per se, but considering the actions of Big Anything really - including Big Pharma - I'm pretty sure the first priorities will continue to be profits and shareholders. Plenty of evidence of that in the past.

People are employed when companies make profits - true. But the priority is profits and not people. AI will not change that.